DUCK_GARDENER photos!

[Cathy]

Posting Photos for Duck_Gardener.

[DUCK_GARDENER]

You don't know it, but I have been lurking here for the last 3 weeks! I have read all the threads and all replys. I still have several questions. Ok, so here is the thing; I got these muscovies from a farm that sells birds for the table. I couldn't stand the thought of them being dinner. My kids fell in love with them. But, due to a language barrier, I know nothing about them, other than that they are muscoviesand that they let the birds hatch and raise the young, so they should have their natural ability intact.  Here are some questions: What are their colors called? Smokey seems light blue when wet,pewter when dry, but goes tan when dirty. There is a pic from day 1 and pics from day 3. notice the color change.It really is the same bird.I don't think that bathing was considered ok at their old farm, but she took to it like a duck...well you know.
  How old could they be. Koko:doesn't she look like a cup of cocoa with 2 marshmellows? It seems to me that Koko is younger, but that may just be the lack of the curunciles. They get along well together, but we have noticed that whomever gets the most attention seems to be top dog/duck the next day! Is that normal, or just a period of adjustment?
When do they usually molt so Smokey will get her wing feathers back(both wings were completely clipped as you can see in the pics. One feather has grown out but only one.
I will be clipping their wings when they grow in,but only the 5 central wing feather way. We will have them in portable pens and a night coop/pen for the rest of the fall and winter, so they will not fly off to the nearest ponding basin.(loads of Canadian geese fly over our place year round, so we don't want them to get any ideas until they know staying means love, attention, and food/treats!)
Any ideas on male/ female issue? I know... most often asked question, but I don't understand just what I am looking at to figure it out myself. They both trill/chirp, but it is so soft you almost miss it if you aren't paying attention. I understand that males hiss...neither one has yet. All the literature says that they do, but not if the drakelets can chirp as yopung , but out grow it at a certain age, or if they never can.

As you can tell, I am very new to muscovies, but have read everything that I could find on the internet during the past month. They are eating bugs, laying pellets, diced apples, asian greens, and cucumber slices. We have ordered the Muzuri waterfowl pellets form a feed store 25 miles away(they  are the only ones who would order it!) They are getting fresh (and seperate)drinking and bathing water, food changed daily and small chuncks of attention(I have 4 kids under eight years old) so as to not scare them. They seem happy, they trill and wag their bums when they see us. My dh says they do not have mites and are not losing weight(over the last 4 days). Am I forgetting to do anything important?
Oh yeah, they will have 2 ducks, 1 drake and one older duckling joining them soonish, so they will be a flock, which I understand they need to be happy. I hope that the duckling , Smokey and Koko are all ducks and not drakes, as fighting is not allowed(smokey and Koko seem to understand this already.) Issolation areas already in place.
Sorry to put so many questions out there at once, but I figured that it would be better to get it all out at once in hope of a "net" effect!

Any responses would be greatly appreciated. It is really great to finally get to "talk' with all of you. Thanks for letting me into the forum.

[Cathy]

What are their colors called? Smokey seems light blue when wet,pewter when dry, but goes tan when dirty.

The 'light blue' bird is actually referred to as a self-blue or lavender.

How old could they be.

Koko does look like a young bird, Smokey appears to be a mature bird however age is difficult to tell once they reach maturity.  Usually an older bird will have longer toenails and if they're inclined to get white flecking, they'll get more as they age.  The white wing bars and shoulder patches will also grow as they age.

When do they usually molt?

Muscovy molt in the fall, mine are molting now and are just about done, most just need the wing feathers to grow in and they'll be finished.

I will be clipping their wings when they grow in...

Really only need to clip one, two isn't needed for most birds although there have been birds that I've clipped both on because they would not stop getting out!

Any ideas on male/ female issue?

Smokey is definitely a female, Koko I thought was a drakelet upon first glance but now I'm wondering.  I was thinking that the wing feathers weren't grown in yet which would lead me to think drakelet, but the tail isn't the right shape and they're too similar in size w/out, both body and feet/legs from what I can see.  You then write later that the wings have been clipped so that reaffirms my opinion that she is a duck.

Oh yeah, they will have 2 ducks, 1 drake and one older duckling joining them soonish, so they will be a flock, which I understand they need to be happy.

They don't really need a flock so much as a companion or two.  The two would be perfectly happy and content with each other.  Adding more birds won't hurt once they accept each other as flock mates but it can be a rough go initially as they are an extremely territorial bird.  You're almost guaranteed a squabble amongst birds anytime you introduce a foreigner into the mix and that's the only way they'll ever accept each other as flock-mates, when they can get the hierarchy figured out by fighting with one another.  Unless it's a seriously mis-matched fight, you will defeat the purpose if you don't let them get it sorted out by fighting.

Hope this helps...think I've addressed most of your questions.

[DUCK_GARDENER]

Cathy, Thank you soooo much. All the info was great and answered tones of questions. Our fall is just starting...last week it was in the 90's still! Hopefull Smokey hasn't yet molted for the year. The farm that I got her from cut all the feathers on both wings! They look terrible, poor thing.
One thing:I thought a self-blue meant that it was completely blue/lavender. Can it have a white head and chest or is it only if it has white on the wings and back that cannot be 'self'. It is like trying to learn a new language!(which I guess it is in a way!)  One answer just raises more questions. I think that I need to get some books!
Hopefully by next year I will have fewer questions than answers:to learn is to live!
I am so glad that I found these magnificent birds and this wonderful forum!

[Cathy]

The self aspect refers to the lack of lacing.  The white head is a completely separate gene and far as I know can be found in any other variety.

[DUCK_GARDENER]

Oh. I will get the hang of this soon, I hope. Thanks. I am still at the 'they are pretty' stage, but I am learning!

[DUCK_GARDENER]

Ok, so guess what? I got the drake and duck pair of black pieds Sunday. They are breeding age, but under a year. They are much bigger than the first pair of ducks that I have. And yes, after seeing the drake in the pen next to Smokey and Koko, I can tell that they are both female, so that means that I have 3 hens and 1 drake so far. I am still expecting a rescue duck and her duckling, now as big as she is, to come as soon as a flight can be arranged.
But here is the dilema....I will need to know how soon I can introduce the new pair to the regular night pen safely. They are currently in the portable pen right next to the main pen, so that they can all see each other and get used to each other. I don't think that it will be a contest to see who is top duck, as the new and largest duck thinks of the drake as the one in charge. They are about 50% bigger than Smokey and Koko. They all seem very happy next door to each other, the first 2 are even happier than before: calmer and less skittish. I will need the portable pen for the two flying in, so I need to introduce the new pair quickly. Is 4 days too soon? Both sets have been part of large flocks, so they are used to being one of a crowd.
And if it is too soon, how will I know if there is a problem? Will it be easy to see, like general attacking,or more subtle, with not allowing one of the ducks to eat? What can make it easier for all of them. Should I move the portable pen to a new area and introduce the older pair to the new ducks first or the other way around? Give treats as usual or withhold thedm until they seem to have adjusted? I am worried that the drake will not be nice to Smokey and Koko. Normal behavior is ok, but not beating up or attacking/truely hurting them will be permitted. We want ducklings, but any aggresion OTT will result in permenant seperation of the offender. SO what is normal, and what should I exspect? How long should I stay at the pen to monitor them?

[Kats]

1 drake and 3 hens is a pretty perfect flock. They will probably produce a mess of babies next year. I would not worry about fighting when you put the 2 pairs together. We introduced a pair (about the age of your first pair) into a flock of 25, and the fighting was minimal. Actually, it is all sound a fury. They make a great noise and butt chests and raise their crests and pull a few feathers out, but they don't use the only weapon with which they could really do any damage, which is their claws. Cathy knows masses more than me and may say differently, but that is my experience--it sounds hair-raising and alarms the rest of the flock, but no real damage gets done--and it is the only way they will all bond as a flock I think.

[DUCK_GARDENER]

I was really worried! we have to put them together as the rescue ducks are coming tomorrow night! The rescue ducks were the first we started with, but Gov't mis-direction and red tape held them up, the others all arived on site first! The drake and duck , as well as the others are all used to very large flocks(up to 1000 ducks for Smokey and Koko!) As long as no blood will be drawn, I can handle noise...I have 4 children, 7yrs to 2yrs old! Noise and I are old friends! Thank you for the info on what to expect. I am going to try introducing them this afternoon after I pick up the kids, so that I can watch them to make sure the adjust ok. A drake and 3 ducks will be enough for a breeding flock, I agree, but as the other 2 are rescue ducks, they will not be used for breeding ducklings.
We all fell in love with Muscovy ducks; they are so sweet and charming! As I am allergic to cats and dogs, and do not like pot bellied pigs(the only other pet allowed by city: muscovies are perfect!) And they are easy to maintain! The hardest part is changing their water tubs/ponds, but a small water pump made that easy! We are recycling the water to the organic veg garden where we just planted fall lettuce for the ducks! Talk about circle of life!
Thank you for the reasssurance about introducing them into the same pen!

[Kats]

Good luck with it! Let us know how it turns out.

I must say that recycling the duck water onto the garden strikes me as a brilliant idea. That water must be absolutely full of nutrients. We are now pondering how we could achieve this because our duck barn is downhill from most of the veg garden. Maybe we move the duck kiddie pond further up the hill or something...

[DUCK_GARDENER]

We had been putting it on the grass area not too far from the pen, but the grass got so green, that I asked another muscovy keeper, who also does organic gardening for a business if it would hurt the garden. She said it works beautifully, but if it is too "gunky" just add more water before watering with it. So far it hasn't hurt anything that we have put it on.
We just started a winter garden to supply the house, as well as the ducks, to have green treats all winter. It only seems fair to give them some, too, as they are helping to grow it! You might need a pump to get it uphill, but when you see the results...Wow! And it's free! Or as my university proffessor would have said the recycled pond water is a "value added product" resulting from the raising of ducks! See the 4 kids didn't take all my brain cells and yes, a stay at home mom can use her University education!

[Cathy]

Using the water like that for your garden plants is a great idea.  I will do that with trees that we have, typically just put a pool near the trunk & empty right there.  That said, we're usually so dry out here that water doesn't stand anywhere for long!  I haven't grown a garden in a few years or I'd do the same thing in the garden.

I would expect squabbles any time you introduce new birds but unless they're doing real damage it's best just to let them hash it out or they will fight just as fiercely the next time they're introduced.  I would only worry with introducing juveniles into an adult flock as they would be more likely to get injured otherwise I typically do not intervene.

[DUCK_GARDENER]

The rescue ducks flew in last night! They are finally here! The Ruby's are amazing, with caring and dogged determination! The ducks are so sweet, with the duckling now about 3 months old! (Gov't and airlines!) The juvenile is a female named Carrie and her mom is named Carolina. They are the ones that I am really worried about introducing to the flock(of 4, now to be 6). But they are housed next to each other, as the portable pen is sitting right next to the night pen and they are both covered in poultry wire. The feral pair are really small, even smaller than the first pair, so the black pied pair are almost 2x their size! The blk pied duck already is pecking at the first 2, Smokey and Koko. She is not too nice I think, with a slight meanness the other 4 are missing. She may become dinner if this keeps up! Seriously, the other 4 ducks are very sweet and caring with each other, But Tilli is not like the at all. She goes out of her way to peck at the others, sneaking up on them while the are resting and nipping at them...just mean. Will this behavior continue? She also appars to be pulling the feathers off of Smokey, who is molting;is this helping her or a bad sign? if it is a bad habit, I don't want the others to pick it up.
The rescue pair are seperate and as we will not be breeding them, it would work for the dh to build another night pen for them, seperating them from the drake and mean duck...so no ducklings.
Any ideas what I should do? Right now I want to get rid of the mean duck!, but I won't if anyone has any ideas.     ...Any ideas?

[Cathy]

It could be that she's establishing dominance, which is very natural and will occur each time there is a shift in the flock's population or circumstance, or it could be that she's just nasty.  Unfortunately you will have to try to determine which it is.  If she's picking on recently introduced birds & keeping them a safe distance away for her own personal space (even that around the water container & food dish) then she's behaving naturally & normally.  If she's going out of her way to chase them down and is actively pulling feathers as if to pluck them bald and doesn't relent for any reason then she's probably learned this behavior somewhere and may never settle down.  Muscovy are notorious for grabbing a bill-full of feathers and hanging on for dear life, so that act alone doesn't mean she's a monster.  It's a matter of degree, I think. 

Flock dynamics have to be established and it will happen despite our best efforts.

[DUCK_GARDENER]

It must have be dynamics as you said, but something must have occured, since Smokey seems to be top duck again! The black pied duck,Tilli has calmed down and seems to have stopped attacking the others. My dh has been giving them more attention, and as a result treats; he feeds the feral pair,Carolina and Carrie, in their pen, then gives it to the others in the following order each time:Smokey, koko, Dicky, then Tilli. They seem to have adapted this as their pecking order. It could just be coincidence, but it works as Smokey and Koko don't peck at the others at all. Dicky steps in any squabbles by stepping in between the bickering 2. It works for us and seems to be working for them! Tilli is getting along with the others and she doen't seem to be even trying to peck them any more. We have decided to keep the rescue ducks next to the others, but seperate, rather than disturbing the flock again. This will also prevent ducklings from the feral pair, as them we would have to find pet homes for them (part of the adoption agreement.) We are in the city and can only have so many, large yard, but city codes!
We are thinking that if they get broody at the same time as any of the others, then we will try to use them as broody hen ducks to hatch out the eggs, as we know that Carolina can hatch them; Carrie is the proof!
I am really greatful to everone on this site for all your help and reassurances. Hopefull the lurning curve will not be too long! Thank you for berring with me while I learn!